並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep13-%E9%9B%A2%E8%81%B7%E8%A9%B2%E5%A6%82%E4%BD%95%E9%9D%A2%E5%B0%8D%E4%BA%BA%E6%83%85%E5%A3%93%E5%8A%9B%E5%91%A2-%E5%A6%82%E4%BD%95%E9%81%B8%E6%93%87%E6%99%82%E6%A9%9F%E9%BB%9E/id1539161824?i=1000504461334