並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep36-%E5%BD%B1%E9%9F%BF%E6%88%91%E5%80%91%E4%BA%BA%E7%94%9F%E6%9C%80%E9%87%8D%E8%A6%81%E7%9A%84%E4%BA%BA%E7%AC%AC%E4%BA%8C%E9%9B%86-%E5%AE%B6%E4%BA%BA%E5%B0%8D%E4%BD%A0%E4%BE%86%E8%AA%AA%E9%87%8D%E8%A6%81%E5%97%8E/id1535487671?i=1000524706276