並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-06-%E6%83%A1%E9%AD%94%E7%9A%84%E9%96%80%E5%BE%92-%E7%90%86%E6%9F%A5%E6%8B%89%E7%B1%B3%E8%80%B6%E8%8C%B2-%E4%B8%8A/id1523591773?i=1000490167257