並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep65-%E7%82%BA%E4%BD%95%E5%88%A9%E7%A9%BA%E4%B8%8D%E5%87%BA%E7%9B%A1-%E6%9C%AC%E9%80%B1%E5%9B%9B%E8%81%AF%E6%BA%96%E6%9C%83%E5%8D%87%E6%81%AF-%E6%81%90%E6%80%95%E9%82%84%E8%A6%81%E8%B7%8C%E4%B8%80%E6%AE%B5-%E9%99%8D%E9%83%A8%E4%BD%8D%E6%96%B9%E6%B3%95%E9%80%99%E6%A8%A3%E5%81%9A-%E4%B8%8A%E9%8A%80-%E5%AE%9A%E7%A9%8E-%E9%A0%8E%E9%82%A6-%E5%8F%B0%E9%81%94%E9%9B%BB%E9%87%8B%E7%96%91-ft-%E9%99%B3%E5%A8%81%E8%89%AF/id1590806478?i=1000554070017